Big-ass argument

So I just got into some massive argument with Peter over politics. Rather then describe it, I'll just post it (this is fucking long, warning).

Jesus Christ, this is long. Anyway, if you have an hour to kill and feel like reading about politics and coming to a vagrant understanding of where my rants seem to originate, go nuts.

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Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
i certainly know why i voted, assfucker

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
and what i voted for

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
and that would be?

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
because i support a lot of the NDP policy

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
which is?

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
outlaw private health care

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
i dont think private health care should be legal

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
they weren't the only party that was for that

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
conservatives love it, liberals dont care enough to do shit about it

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
so you voted for them for one reason.

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
its a reason

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
and what are the others?

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
their policy on education, which is reducing tuition and making it mroe affordable and accessible to the general population

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
again, not the only party to talk about that

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
theyve got the better plan

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
and that would be?

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
conservatives: give money for books/tools for trades. liberals: free tuition/low tuition year first and last year but still fucked in the middle. ndp: just lower it in general across the board

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
at the expense of?

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
remember, liberals do take a lot of ideas from the NDP

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
i support their policy regarding cities and building their infrastructure, transit, etc

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
i support the idea of a national daycare for thsoe who want to take advantage of it

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
i support their stance on kyoto, keep it and meet its goals and not sit around and do bull on it

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
seriously man, are you just reading this off a website right now?

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
i support their policy on missile defence: a clear no

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
no im not reading this off a website

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
its not like im totally oblivious to the news

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
okay. Go on

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
i honestly think the ndp has a clearer stance on stuff than the liberals do

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
honestly, you seem to think this is all easily accomplishable. There's no fucking way the money is around to acheive all these things

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
that depends if you're using it efficiently or not

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
gun registry is a good idea, just poorly done

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
That's a fucking joke. NDP talks a big game but seems to think there's some massive surplus to get this shit done

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
thats because there is a surplus, asshat

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
I know that, fucktard. But that's cause we HAVEN'T spent shitloads of money on programs like this

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
outside policy, you know where i stand ideologically. are you surprised about what i voted?

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
NDP seems to fit my ideological stance

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
first: there isn't the population in order to finance these things that NDP want; second, there isn't enough tax revenue. Half of
these "projects" are astronomically expensive to run, like anti-missile defence, national fucking daycare, tuition, and restructuring the infastructure

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
antimissle costs 0$ if we say no to it

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
and NDP sAYs no to it

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
so in order for these to go down so perfectly, they would need to raise taxes, or it would be run poorly or incompletely.

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
No it fucking does not

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
i will acknowledge you cant implement them all at once, the money isnt there, youd have ot phase them in

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
they don't get a goddamn volunteer to go against pro-missile defense.. they'd have to stage a campaign against it, which would also cost a shitload of money

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
itd be worth it

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
you dont create a happy world by putting weapons here there and everywhere

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
That much I agree with, but National daycare is a ridiculous idea that simply can NOT be done

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
first of all, that'd be a shitload of people out of a job

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
thats why you hire them

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
There's already people that run daycares

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
the current folks running daycares get employed

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
then why change the system?

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
because the government can ensure that daycares exist so that those who want to run one but lack money can actually run one

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
if we're going to have a society with two parents working, somethign needs to be there, and if daycare spaces dont exist, i think the government needs to step in and do something

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
if it means subsidizing daycares, then so be it

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
Or maybe parents should be more damn responsible about having children if they can't handle the task

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
And who would pay that?

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
OR would we take that from our "endless" surplus?

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
dude, lots of people legitimately have kids bevcause they want them, not because a one night stand ended badly

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
I know that, but if we can't sustainably take care of them, then why are we having them?

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
because its human nature to reproduce to keep the species alive

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
It's not the middle-class people that are having troubles with taking care of kids. In fact, in those demographics child-birth is dropping

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
it's in low-income families and teen pregancies that are on the rise

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
so your stance is leave them on the street to die

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
Trust me, we're not having problems reproducing. We're completely overproducing

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
My stance is stop the fuckers from spawning so much

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
so your government would spend money on contraception for these people

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
or surgery to tie tubes

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
obviously not tying tubes; that'd be a personal choice. But definitely handing out contraceptives

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
but that costs money

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
and people would leech of the govt for pills, which you seem to not like leeching people

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
but really, are you surprised i voted why i voted?

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
ratrher what i voted

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
No, I just think you've been whitewashed by propaganda

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
Look, my beliefs are definitely not free, I obviously am aware of the cost of condoms and contraceptives. But that's a shitload cheaper then 18-22 years of child expenses

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
It's obvious the world is overpopulated, and despite the low-income benefits of the NDP's proposed platform, it'd be a shortlived "dream" because what they promise would never be sustainably possible

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
i highly doubt youd complain about my vote if i voted green

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
im thinking it could be an anti-ndpness on your part

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
I'm anti-NDP just as much as I am anti-Conservative

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
honestly, the best place to rest on the spectrum is Liberal

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
but the Liberal party obviously can't run their shit straight

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
the point remains, youd probably not complain about my vote if i voted green

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
I wouldn't complain, but I'd maintain my stance that you didn't know what you voted for

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
In actuality, it does seem I was wrong, you at least are more knowledgeable about what you voted for; for that I apologize. But you honestly buy into a lot of the propaganda from the NDP platfrom

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
to say that is a bit arrogant on your part, its not like i didnt know what was going on going into the poll. and its not like i suddendly decided on NDP this year

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
whatever the NDP says they will do, feasible or not, i look at them as the concious of the nation, the party that keeps the government in check on the social side of things

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
I know that, but you seemed to be conflicted about your vote between Green/NDP, and then literally overnight you turned into a NDP fanatic

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
i decided on NDP about a week or two ago

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
that doesn't change the overnight factor

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
well before the rally, something just felt right about NDP

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
any confliction i got over green came when i was doing my doc when some of green policy was explained to me

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
but i ultimately decided that i couldnt support all of green's non-environmental policy

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
The crux of a fringe-party

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
theyre fiscally conservative

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
which equals cutting programs that are beneifical to the country

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
Not particularly; they're actually all over the place fiscally

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
as explained to me by teh green candiate: fiscally conservative, socially progressive

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
That's just the bullshit they give reporters

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
LIterally, their platform changes from member to member... a serious holdback

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
dude, i thought that before interviewing her though

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
she pretty much confirmed it

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
except in London North the Green candidate when fiscally progressive, socially progressive

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
if there was such a riding as London North

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
Which there is; Joe Fontana won it

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
i do realize teh NDP probably won't form government (if they do, itll be a long time). but its the NDP that puts forward ideas and keeps the government's social concious in check

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
and i can live with that

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
btw, its London North Centre

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
London North is non-existent

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
and btw, the Liberals hold the balance of power, not the NDP

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
they are the official opposition

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
Liberals don't hold the balance of power

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
they have 103 seats, do your math, 29 isnt much

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
The balance of power isn't the second strongest party. It's the party that can combine with another to defeat the government if they wanted to

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
and the cons plus ndp cant pass a law anyways, they dont have 155 put together

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
Liberals + Bloc = 154 seats. Liberals + Bloc + NDP = new vote

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
remember the cons will only have 123 votes because one will become speaker, who doesnt vote

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
except in ties

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
Cons + NDP = 152

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
155 = majority

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
if bloc and lib vote no, law screwed

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
I know. NDP holds the balance of power

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
152 vote doesnt pass a law unles sthe libs or bloc vote for it

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
I know

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
the NDP and Cons would never form a coalition anyway

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
the cons only need bloc or lib, they can ignore ndp

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
They sure as shit aren't going to get Liberal

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
libs got con support last time around, its not like its next to impossible

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
and they arent goign to vote down teh govt on a money matter unless harper fucks up royally as Canadians do not want an election for 2 years. they will bargain their stance to avoid the stance

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
rather election

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
You seem hellbent on this horseshit proposition of 2 years

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
they all know whoever pulls teh plug on the cons is fucked

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
dude, if you were aware of the news in this election, canadians didnt want this one

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
I know

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
canadians want a minority

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
but that doesn't mean the one we have is any better

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
and will be pissed if they dont work toegther

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
fucking Harper

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
id rather something positive come out of thi parliament instead of bickery

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
wishful thinking

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
of the leaders, its only layton who gets it

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
for the most part

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
Oh now that's fucking horseshit

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
dude, the cons wanted it more than the ndp

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
to my knowledge, it was gomery that prompted them to go early

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
Layton is not some goddamn saint you make him out to be

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
neither is the green party

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
Hey, fuck you, I never ONCE said they were

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
Don't put fucking words in my mouth I never said

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
and i never said jack layton was a saint

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
same to you

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
You won't shut up about how "Layton's got the idea" and "Layton wants to work together" blah blah blah

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
but i never said he was saint. thats you putting words in my mouth

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
That's just goddamn horseshit, you and I both know that you'd be ecstatic if NDP took majority

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
id actually go into shock

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
regardless, even if it was one of those things that was a long-time coming obvious thing, you wouldn't complain

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
And I never said you said he was a saint, I said you make him out to be one

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
Regardless, moot point. You talk up Layton like he's the shit all the time

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
and he's not

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
i think hes one of the NDP's better leaders

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
he's more outspoken, granted, but that doesn't make him better

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
hes done better than Alexa McDonoguh

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
he's benefitted from the fact that the Liberals and Cons have fucked up repeatedly

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
well they do have momentum, and those aggravating polls (Whether theyre true or not) say Canadians do likethe party

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
i think the coutnry is torn betweent he left and the right

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
and given the party's positioning and "strength", he can afford to go on prolific rants about progression and change because he's got that blanket

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
Put him in Jim Harris' position, nobody would listen to him if he didn't have a seat but had noteable percentile of the vote

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
well the NDP did increase their count to 29

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
i think that says something

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
I call a lot of protest votes in their favour

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
i dunno... most o ftheir seats were in urban canada

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
cons i think got the protest vote

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
No, if they did, they'd have a majority gov't

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
protest OUTSIDE urban canada

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
NDP more than doubled (I think.. did they have 18 or 12 seats last time) their seat total

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
they had 19 last time

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
40 would be double

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
okay so they got 40% more

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
either way, that's a fucking assload more in a seemingly equal footed election

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
a flaw of theirs is that they tend to be more urban oriented

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
which doesnt speak well to farmers

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
so why do you think the protest votes went outside urban Canada??

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
southern ontario used to be mostly liberal until 2004/2006

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
its all blue cept for one riding

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
and windsor/london

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
You mean, Hamilton, Toronto, both who went NDP?

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
theya re urban canada

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
not rural

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
look at rural souther ontario, its mostly blude

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
exactly. What the fuck are you talking about??

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
I'm talking about protest votes being urban

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
if it went red to blue, probably a protest vote

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
and those going NDP

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
the london NDP won on name recognition

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
Really, the conservative Libs went Consey, the progressive Libs went NDP

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
shes been running for 10 years

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
the fanshawe chick?

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
yeah

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
people like her

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
yeah... EOA though

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
like I was saying, low-income

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
then why that consey lib dude for 10ish years?

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
how the fuck should I know? I've lived here two years

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
lowincome maybe a fair argument, but its a generalization considering its history

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
I'm just saying low income are more likely to go NDP cause of the low-income benefits NDP offer

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
which ultimately end up screwing them over

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
but whatever the outcome, you cant really hold it against me for supporting NDP ideas

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
I don't hold it against you, just like you don't hold my Greenism against me

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
I'm just saying I don't think you understood the issues. That I was wrong about

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
that ill accept

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
as far as that ndp fanatic comment, ive been leaning towards NDP fora few years now. teh greenism on my part was two things: a) findingout more about the party because of interviewing adn b) i know the candiate as she was my high school teacher and considered giving her the vote of support

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
if she wasnt running, green probably wouldnt have crossed my mind as a serious vote

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
I've never voted anything but Green

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
and it's highly likely that I'll spend my entire life voting Green, unless they fuck up their policies or gain immense power

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
but i am still a bit shocked that you thought i didnt know anything about what i was voting for... seeing as how its something i am interested in and the fact that i am doing journalism, which entails keeping up to date on the stuff

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
It was brought on by your apparent uncertainty in voting party, followed by an overnight fanaticism to the NDP

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
it does feel a bit insulting

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
meh, I'm not exactly a sugar-coating person

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
i dont expect you to be, but my point remains

Mark - Tired as fuck says:
dude, it's not like I never gave you a chance to defend yourself

Peter - way to go Canada... officially almost George Bush's whipping boy. says:
true...

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Jebus. If only other people took this much interest in arguing politics, eh?

-Mark